When President Trump fired Rohit Chopra as head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) and replaced him with Jonathan McKernan, Public Citizen’s Bart Naylor told reporters that “McKernan not only brings a history of serving senators bent on hobbling the CFPB, he will join a team of anti-government arsonists that includes co-President Elon Musk and Project 2025 author Russell Vought.”

“This despicable duo illegally shuttered the CFPB this week, depriving our nation of watchdogs to rein in financial industry predators and prevent the next economic crash. If a kakistocracy is government by the worst, McKernan will be in good company.”

“During his confirmation hearing, McKernan must deliver an ironclad commitment to oblige Congress’s mandate that the CFPB will work to protect average Americans from Wall Street pillagers,” Naylor said. “This means full funding, aggressive enforcement, a robust consumer complaint response machinery and database, and more.”

Naylor is a former Senate Banking Committee staffer who knows the ins and outs of financial regulation and is closely following Trump’s dismantling of the law enforcement offices set up to police the markets.

Did you anticipate that when Trump came into office he would shut down law enforcement agencies like the CFPB?

“No. I thought he would do it the way Mick Mulvaney did – appoint conservative, pro-Wall Street guys and slow-walk everything,” Naylor told Corporate Crime Reporter in an interview last week. “I didn’t expect that they would actually violate the law and send people home and tell people not to work, as they have done as of Saturday at the CFPB.”

What was the order to the CFPB workers?

“They were told not to come to work. That’s according to the press reports. There is a lawsuit filed by the Treasury workers, who I think represent all of the unionized members who work at the CFPB. In those lawsuits, they say that an email was sent out on Saturday telling workers not to come to work.”

Let’s look at the major corporate crime enforcement agencies in the city – the CFPB, the SEC, the CFTC and the Justice Department fraud unit. They are doing the slow walk at these other agencies, but at the CFPB they just told the workers to go home. Why the difference?

Why was the CFPB targeted for differential treatment?

“I know that Musk doesn’t like the CFPB. He’s concerned that they are going after Twitter X. He’s trying to slap a payment system onto Twitter and signed a deal with Visa. He tweeted a month ago or so – Delete the CFPB.” 

“And Wall Street generally and predatory lenders in particular hate the CFPB because it is harming their business model. It’s not clear to me how high up the CFPB is on his hit list. We’re certainly paying attention to it. Last Friday he tweeted – CFPB RIP.” 

The corporate defense lawyers are also concerned about what Trump and Musk are doing because it adversely affects their business model. And they tend to be corporate liberals – believing that the law should apply equally to corporations and individuals. And they make their millions defending those corporations under investigation. 

Where does the defense bar stand on this?

“A legitimate business person does not like scoundrels playing in the same marketplace. It makes them look bad, it takes away customers who would otherwise be doing business with them. Mainstream business wants the rules, they want them to be clear and they want them enforced. Literally shutting them down doesn’t serve them.” 

“What if Musk said that all air traffic controllers should stay home? The problem is obvious. We wouldn’t have any airplanes flying anymore. What the CFPB does is a little more difficult to explain. But it has a similar result. It’s going to interfere with commerce, with financial transactions.”

The Chamber of Commerce in the past has sued the CFPB to overturn regulations. Have the business lobbies weighed in at all on Musk’s moves?

“I haven’t seen anything yet. Again, this is moving quickly, it has happened in the last two days.”

You are with Congress Watch. What should Congress do, what is it doing?

“In no particular order, there is a rally today from 4 to 6. Congresswomen Maxine Waters and Elizabeth Warren will speak. We think what Musk is doing is a violation of law. Congress approved funding and charged the CFPB with spending it to protect consumers. The administration can’t unilaterally do what it is doing. The sharpest response is going to be in the courts. Members of Congress can certainly use the bully pulpit to make appropriate statements. They are and they will. But this Congress is beholden to Donald Trump.” 

“Any vehicle available should be exploited. Tommy Tuberville (R-Alabama) stopped all military promotions which required Congressional action.” 

Do you see any movement in that direction from the Democrats?

“I’m hearing it. They could vote against all nominees, or try to interfere with quoroms. Who is doing it? My sister lives in Eugene, Oregon. And she was at a town hall with Senator Jeff Merkley (D-Oregon). He has one of the mildest personalities in the Senate and he’s talking about doing something a bit more aggressive.”

The New York Times ran an article a couple of days ago titled – “As Trump and Musk Upend Washington, Congressional Phones Can’t Keep Up, In the three weeks since President Trump took office and gave Elon Musk free rein inside the federal government, millions of calls have poured in to members of Congress, jamming the system.”

How do you sense this will play out?

“I assume the courts will kick out and much of the actions we are seeing now will be enjoined. The judge might order the CFPB staff to come back to work and do their jobs, as they ordered the Musk people to keep their hands off the payment system.” 

Your expertise is bank regulation. Where is Trump on financial regulation?

“I assume he doesn’t know much about it, other than what the Heritage Foundation guys want him to do next.”

“At the SEC, he has appointed Paul Atkins. Atkins, unlike others, is well skilled at securities law. He was an SEC staffer, he was a commissioner. He has been a lobbyist. He might be the most dangerous, because once he’s there, he can move the machinery. He has often voted against enforcement actions. He will be rolling back shareholder resolutions and shareholder suffrage generally.”

It seems like Public Citizen will file more lawsuits in the first month of Trump than in the whole Biden administration. Is that accurate?

“It could be,” Naylor says. “Our litigation department is very busy. I know that we filed the lawsuit against the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) seconds after Trump took office.”

[For the complete q/a format Interview with Bart Naylor, 39 Corporate Crime Reporter 7(13), February 17, 2025, print edition only.]